Aaron’s story
The Church of Scientology has come under fire in Australia from Senator Nick Xenophon, labelling Scientology a “criminal organisation” and calling for a Senate inquiry in to their practices and tax exemption. Senator Xenophon’s strong stance comes after receiving letters from seven Australian’s who are former Scientologists, making substantiated claims of torture, forced abortion, illegal imprisonment and a culture of physical and psychological abuse within the organisation. Aaron Saxton was one of these former Scientologists to have their letter tabled by Senator Xenophon.
Aaron Saxton spent several years working as an enforcer of the Church of Scientology’s policies in the Sea Org. Aaron spoke with me this morning and shared some of his experiences from within the Church of Scientology.
The allegations you will read are both extraordinary and disturbing. I have no doubt that many of you unfamiliar with these issues will invoke Carl Sagan and say that “extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence”, and so I will provide in the comments below a list of sources which substantiate the validity of Aaron’s claims.
Aaron:
My parents were in Scientology, and when I grew up I only did one or two courses in Scientology until I was 15. When I was 15 I joined the Sea Organisation in Sydney, and I was put straight into administration training. So while a lot of Scientologists were doing the bridge, my experience was never about going up the bridge, I was purely based around the policies of the Church. I did that from 1989 until 1996. I did 2 years in Australia, a year in Florida and then the rest was in Los Angeles.
I probably did about 10 hours of actual auditing in 6 years, but I did around 300 hours of Security Checking (interrogations). I was purely just, to use a wog term, an enforcer in the Sea Organisation, which is one of the things that I suppose makes my story a bit more to the point about their management techniques.
The Church of Scientology has one unique factor about it from other religions. Every other religion, you’re given all the information at the start. So when a person defends the Catholic Church, he can because he has read the entire bible. The average Scientologist has done less than 10% of the actual materials in the Church, he doesn’t know what he’s defending; he has no idea. You could give him Star Trek XI as OT8 and he will defend it, because he must defend the Church otherwise he is instructed to leave.
I asked Aaron to give me an idea of the conditions which Sea Org members were living and working under.
Aaron:
These are the typical conditions: first of all, no medical expenses; not allowed to see doctors. Secondly, the diet wasn’t written by a nutritionist, it’s just what the person who was assigned as the Chef of the building made up, so there was no nutritional value in the food. They slept in rooms around 10ft x 10ft, and in that room you could expect to have at least 6 people living; sometimes you could have up to 9 people in a room that size. No use of deodorants or perfumes or anything.
If you were married in the Sea Org, you had to wait until a room came up where you could live alone with your wife; sometimes you’d be on a waiting list for a year or two. That meant you couldn’t have sex have with her, and you’re also not permitted to go off the base and rent a hotel room so you could have sex. If you tried to have sex outside the bedroom it was considered perverted so you were punished, you couldn’t win.
In 1996, the cash reserve figure of the Scientology empire worldwide was at $1,000,000,000 US. These are the people that say they can’t afford to pay for medical expenses, these are the people that say there’s no money to get your teeth fixed when you’re a member of staff, these are the people that say there’s no money to buy an buildings so you can have your own room. They run a fucking ship that’s 350ft in length, and they’re telling you they’ve got no money.
We are talking about a paramilitary force; there’s no such thing as days off, there’s no civilian contact, there’s no TV, there are no newspapers, there are no magazines. We’re talking about complete isolation from any information. For example, in the Sea Org, all the management staff are told about all the glorious victories we’ve had, we’re never told about one single failure on the part of Scientology.
As far as you know while you’re working there, Scientology is dominating the world, and you want it to dominate the world. The goal of the Sea Org is not to have Scientology worldwide, the goal of the Sea Org is to control all activities on the planet and to eliminate all people to who are hostile to their stated goals, whatever they may be.
In that environment you believe you’re psychologically strong, you believe you’re very powerful. When you go out in to the real world like I have, you realise how weak you really are, you realise that you can’t actually yell at a person and use fear as a way to get compliance. In the Sea Org you believe you are superior to all other human beings on Earth, they are beneath you and will not survive and are pathetic, and unless they do what you are doing, they will die. You wouldn’t put up with it for a day.
The way the executives lived, like the messengers up in Florida and Los Angeles, we were lucky; we had a room that was 12ft x 12ft which only had four people in it. When I was married I got my own private apartment.
If you were a senior executive of the Church, you got a villa. You lived in luxury; the best sheets, the best clothes, the food was extraordinary. You still worked like a dog, but at least you were in total control and you weren’t being dominated, so for them it was a different experience.
You’re taught that it’s okay to have more rewards if you’re in a higher position, or you are better than somebody else. So the goal is so that if you’re better than someone else, either statistically or in training, you’re superior to them as a human being and therefore it’s justified that you receive better treatment. That’s the bottom line, it’s a constant game of “you’ve got to be better than the guy next to you” in order to survive better than him.” It’s like putting a pack of dogs together in a room and giving them not enough food, the best dogs survive and the other dogs learn that they have to fight to become the best.
I asked Aaron to share what he felt were the greatest injustices he witnessed or was involved in whilst with the Sea Org.
Aaron:
In Los Angeles, we asked for staff members to have abortions. Monica Potter, Lisa Picone and Astra Woodcraft, to name a few, were asked to have abortions. If they didn’t want to abort, we pulled their spouses in and told them that their partner wanting to have a baby was against the purpose of the Sea Org, that they were leaving the group, that they were traitors, that they should do everything to convince them to kill the child.
If they said that they wanted to have the child, I’ll give you an example, we’d assign them a Condition of Treason against the Sea Org and make them do a Condition of Doubt where they had to decide which group in life they really belonged to, the choices of the group were the Sea Org or “wogs”, which is the name for human beings that were considered unintelligent. If they chose to be a wog, we told them it was “non-survival” and it showed that they were “out-ethics” and they too were degraded people, and the only choice was to remain in the Sea Org.
They would keep being pressured with this, so they would run away, we would pull them up and say “that’s a suppressive act, we’re going to disconnect you from everyone you know from Scientology unless you come back and say you’re sorry.”
I asked Aaron how many of these women had abortions in order to stay in the Sea Org.
Aaron:
Monica Potter, the wife of Gavin Potter, was pulled in to the office by me and told to abort her child. Gavin Potter was individually pulled into his own offices and told by their communications office staff to order the abortion. They both failed to comply, so I tried to intimidate Gavin Potter. Monica Potter, who was from a rich family, then said if we carried on she would refuse, she would refuse to keep funding the Church. We said “okay as long as you keep funding the church, you can go off and you can have your baby”, and she was let go of on good terms.
Lisa Picone refused to have the abortion but unfortunately, due to the stress, she miscarried. Quite a lot of the women ended up miscarrying, a pregnant woman shouldn’t be running around a building for 15 hours a day, 7 days a week, try to comprehend this, 105 working hours per week, no days off. A pregnant woman, without the nutritional requirements, and all the stress of being yelled at, she’s going to lose that child.
I asked Aaron what his role was in these situations.
Aaron:
I would pull them in, put them in the office, lock the door, talk to them, try to lightly coerce them. Failing that, step up the gradient, a light coersion turns in to a heavy coersion, a heavy coersion turns in to pulling out their ethics file and showing them just how evil they are. If that fails, then you can always do a Committee of Evidence for their abandonment of their position in the Church. Failing that, there’s always the Rehabilitation Project Force; we had pregnant women going into a penal colony where you were forbidden to walk, you had to run, if you did not run you were punished physically by doing pushups or running around the block. You were forbidden to communicate with other human beings about anything. Those are the penalties you could face if you didn’t obey.
If you did leave the Sea Org, and you did route out properly, and you got your interrogation, you were forever reminded by them that the moment the child turns 4 years of age, you had to return to the Sea Org and your child would be placed in to a ranch, where the child would only be educated on Scientology materials. You would only be able to see your child, if you were lucky, for one hour a day; no phone calls, no other communication throughout the day.
We had a Cadet Org set up at Flag Land Base that had more than 50 children. These kids weren’t allowed to mix with other children, they weren’t allowed to go to a school because they would learn the wrong information about life. These kids, by the age of 7, are telling you that they know that they’ve lived for 75 trillion years, that they know they’re supposed to be superhuman beings, and the reason why they’re not is because they were bad people in a past life, and this is why they lost their abilities. They know that if anybody doesn’t join the Sea Org, that they’re helping to destroy the planet, and they’re an enemy and they are not to be spoken to.
This is the voice coming out of 7 year old children. Can you imagine what a 7 year old grows up to be by the time he’s 13? We’re talking about a human being that knows nothing about family values, because he doesn’t have a family, he doesn’t play sport, he doesn’t watch TV, doesn’t read the newspaper, doesn’t read great works of fiction, he knows nothing except that L. Ron Hubbard was a god.
I asked Aaron if he had any more examples to share of abuses within the Church of Scientology .
Aaron:
When we (the CMO) got Laura Dikeman she was 15 and separated from her family. For two years straight, she refused all passes to leave and see her family back in San Francisco. Her family came to Los Angeles, and she was refused passes to go out and visit them. When her parents complained to me about not seeing their daughter, all phone calls to Laura were barred. I took Laura in to an office and I told her that her parents are “suppressive people” that are trying to destroy Scientology by taking her out of the Sea Org, and that her choice is to disconnect from them and tell them that they’re bad people for hurting her spirituality. She did it, and disconnected from them.
On Valentines day 1995, a security breach occurred at the INCOMM computer banks. All of the staff were locked up for a period of two months and forbidden to make any phone calls, they were made to sleep on the floor, escorted to and from the shower and refused communication to anybody until we had finished interrogating all of them to find out who was responsible for the security breach. Half of them went insane and when they left the Sea Org they were junk, mentally they were fucked. I don’t want to hear their bullshit that they don’t do it, because we did it, and I did it.
In the Hollywood Guaranty Building we detained Lea Hines. She was taken by me in 1994 to see the commanding officer Foster Tompkins, who had a history of beating staff. She wasn’t obeying my orders or instructions, I knew she was suicidal because I had read her file and spoke to her about it, and rather than help her I took her to Foster Thompkins office. He beat her, and he did this in front of myself and two other staff members, tore the top half of her shirt off, punched her in the face until she was terrified, and then we thought we’d done enough to put her in to line.
At AOSH ANZO, Simon van der Wee tried to take off with his girlfriend. I grabbed their files, called their family, called their friends and pretended to be an old friend to try and find them. I walked out of the Organisation, I eventually tracked them down at an apartment. I broke in to that apartment and I sat there waiting for them. When they got home, I ordered them into the car, got them back to the Organisation. Later that night, we took them over to the Castlereagh offices, over there they tried to run away and myself and two other Sea Org members chased them through Hyde Park until they were out of breath. We sat them down on a bench, surrounded them and I personally grabbed her and screamed in her ear “you’ve got to come back or we’re going to declare you suppressive”. She was balling her eyes out, Simon was in tears, and they humbly agreed to come back and we put them through interrogations again.
I asked Aaron if he feels responsible for the incidents he was involved in, and how he tried to justify them at the time.
Aaron:
I did it because I enjoyed it, I did it at the time because I got a statistic, and I got rewarded for it, and I had no regrets at the time. I didn’t give a shit if you kept your baby or not, I just didn’t care. In the Sea Org I had a wife, Willow Jaffe, she is now one of the directors of the Church of Scientology in the state of Nevada. I asked my own wife to abort; when she told me she was pregnant, I told her to get rid of the baby.
I took my own brother and put him in the penal colony myself. I ordered the disconnection of my own family. I was not a person you wanted to fuck with when I was in CMO in Los Angeles. I didn’t care, I just didn’t give a shit. I didn’t lose any sleep over you, I didn’t lose any sleep if your sister was in the Sea Org and I asked her to never talk to her friends again, I didn’t care.
I asked Aaron how he thinks that he had come to think this way.
Aaron:
The reason is simple, if you take a look at Scientology, the horrific truth is this; it’s public policy says that by definition “Scientology”, the word, is the study of knowledge. The person who wrote Scientology is L. Ron Hubbard, by that rationale that means that L. Ron Hubbard must know everything.
In the policies of Scientology, L. Ron Hubbard says that the only optimal solution is always Scientology, and that anything that takes you away from an optimal solution is an enemy of your self. Therefore, anything that is an enemy of Scientology is an enemy to yourself, and must be suppressive and must be destroyed, and I believed that. I believed that the Earth would come to an end if we didn’t have the Sea Org controlling the entire planet, because the only you’re information you’re shown about the public is a war, bad psychiatrists, evil IRS agents, a world of paranoia and fear, death and destruction. You never got to see the good stuff that’s going on out there in life, the great movies, the beautiful music, the lovely festivals.
Let me tell you something Bef, there is nothing in Scientology that can give you a smile like the love of a partner, or the hug from a child. There is no OT level in Scientology that can even compare to this, but they wouldn’t know about that, because I invite you to look at all the books written by Ron Hubbard and I ask you to count the times the word “love” appears; it doesn’t! This fuckwit took the word “love” out of the language, it doesn’t exist in Scientology technology. How fucking evil can you get? The word “hate” does, the word “enemy” is everywhere, but the word “love” doesn’t even exist. This is a very evil man.
The most evil thing, Bef, and this is where you’re going to swallow your tongue, I can take you into the Church of Scientology right now, and guess what? You’re going to like it because it’s going to help you. I’m not shitting you, I’ve seen people’s intelligence rise because they could read finally. That’s not the point, it’s like going to a dentist and because he makes you feel better because he fixed your tooth, and then he frickin’ tells you he can make you grow wings and fly around the planet. I mean, you’re sucked in, you believe well “if this part of it works, maybe the next part of it will work.”
I asked Aaron for his thoughts on Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder after previously hearing Aaron criticise Rathbun and Rinder for talking about David Miscavige hitting staff and not being open about the other things they had seen and been involved in. I offered one thing in support of Marty Rathbun; he admitted that he ordered the destruction of evidence to assist in covering up the death of Lisa McPherson. I also made the point that Rathbun had been offering his auditing services after parting from the Church of Scientology.
Aaron:
How about we get the guy who fucking locked her up named, where are the names of the guys who locked the door on Lisa McPherson? Marty Rathburn and Mike Rinder know who these people are. Marty has his own agenda, and he’s a chicken.
I don’t need another fuckwit out there to control my mind, Marty just doesn’t get it; he thinks the reason why he was controlled is because of David Miscavige. What about the other 4800 Sea Org members? David Miscavige didn’t talk to them, so why were they controlled? The technology and policies of the Sea Org were written by that same insane man Ron Hubbard. David Miscavige followed policy to the letter, and that is why he is so dangerous. There’s nothing criminal in what David Miscavage did from a Scientology point of view, hitting another staff member is ok, it’s written in policy that it is ok. David Miscavige is not a renagade, he’s just a zealot. He is enthusiastic about 100% application, that’s the insanity. Marty Rathbun, if he starts up another Sea Org, then he’s going to have to do the same thing.
I went to the Freewinds in 1995, and on the Freewinds I met and spoke with Marty Rathbun and Greg Wilhere. I notice that in my email to Marty Rathbun he won’t acknowledge that he knows me, in fact on his blogspot he says he never met me, he is lying. I’ve got lots of people that will stand up and tell the world that he’s lying, such as Tom De Vocht. Tom De Vocht knows jolly well that I’ve met with David Miscavige and Marty Rathbun at the Flag Land Base on several occasions. I’ve washed Marty Rathbun’s god-damned shirts, I handed the shirts to him, so I don’t want to hear his bullshit that he didn’t know me, he is a liar.’
I asked Aaron what he thought about the fact that most of the media attention surrounding Scientology was simply mocking the Space Opera. I pointed out that I can easily (and frequently do) make a mockery of the beliefs of even mainstream religious groups for the absurdity of their beliefs, but in this case to mock the beliefs is to take attention away from the real issues; the huge human rights violations.
Aaron:
The Church of Scientology that you see on TV and the Church of Scientology that you see in your local Organisation is full of people that believe in what they’re doing, they believe it. Don’t go after them for their beliefs, go after the management, and have a look at these people and what they are like.
I’m telling you, Bef, Tampa right now is half-owned by the Church of Scientology. If you get an entire town or a city that’s dominated by these people, you will have the complete loss of all human rights, you are looking at something that makes communism and the Nazi party look pathetic. L. Ron Hubbard’s policies in the Sea Org call for the elimination of over 20% of the world’s population, because of the way that they act. There is no humanity and compassion.
If a country is ever controlled by the Sea Org, and that’s exactly what they want to do, and they will get it if you let them expand. Ever public should be terrified by this, this is how the Nazi party started. Through the course of human history, this is how groups have risen to end up destroying the lives of millions of people, and in our current age there is no greater threat. Right now across the world you have over 1 billion Muslims, in a world where you would have 1 billion Sea Org members or Scientologists, all governments will be replaced by the Sea Org, all police will be replaced by the Sea Organisation, all hospitals would be shut down, all books will be burned and thrown away that do not contain Scientology. It’s your worst nightmare, and for tens of thousands of people around the world, this is their life right now, and they need help, they need to hear about compassion.
I’ve spoken to a couple of people in these last days that have done worse stuff than I have, and they are too scared to talk. You can control people more easily with fear than you can with love. If the government doesn’t step in and stop it, they will expand.
In the population there are certain people that like to be bullies, and they like to control. All you need is 1 out of 1000 people, and that means you’ve got 20,000 of them here in Australia right now, and they will go off and join the Sea Org because it gives them a place where they can be that inhumane, there are people in society like that, they’re very few and far between, but that is what the Sea Org wants, they want those people because belief won’t have anything to do with their actions, just control.
In America, a population of 300m, 1 out of 1000 people is a staggering 300,000 people, and that’s their goal; to get those people in. They will get it if the government doesn’t stop this organisation from existing, and if it means the destruction of Scientology as a religion, then so be it, but I want to make a very clear differentation here, I don’t have anything against the average Scientologist, he is just as deluded as the next guy, but he has no idea what he is a part of. Here’s the thing, if he dares look at the information a person like you will present to them, it is forbidden, so how can you evaluate information if you’re not allowed to ever see it?
They actually have policies that order human rights violations! That’s the incredible thing, how could they they grant the status of a religion to an organisation that has policies that overtly declare the waving of human rights? That’s what astounds me. We need the inquiry to pull out every policy letter that they operate off of and see what they say.
I really need to thank Aaron for sharing his experiences, he has bravely put his own neck on the chopping block in order to bring attention to the massive human rights abuses in the Church of Scientology. Aaron had a final comment for Anonymous:
Aaron:
It’s people like you and Anon that made me come out, you’re the heroes of this. The hero here is you, you stood up for it before you had a leg to stand on, I came out now because I’ve got a leg to stand on. Yeah, I might go to jail, I might get a prosecution, but fuck it, I’m not going to live with this for the rest of my life, I just want to say thank you. I wouldn’t exist today on the internet if you didn’t create a safe environment for me.
Is there any mention or discussion of Aaron, and the important insight and information that he’s provided, on the new Scientology Forum run by Geir Isene? Is this information being ignored there? Perhaps someone who is a member there can bring up this important topic, and its links, for examination and discussion.
Aaron’s frankness is so rare and so confronting.
Thanks to both of you.
Bravo Aaron.
James
Aaron, there are many factual errors or mis characterizations in your rant, but the one I want to address it your assertion that the word love does not exist in scientology.
It factually does exist repeatedly in Hubbards writings, starting with his first major book; Dianetics the Modern Science of Mental Health. I wonder, given what you have said about your experiences in scientology if you ever got the chance to read this basic text that is the core of our beliefs?
And figuratively, and apparently outside your sphere of experience, love exists in how scientologists live their lives and offer help to others. Perhaps in the perverse micro universe of the CMO and Sea Org, the culture was different, but to the rank and file, your words are unreal.
You admit to actual crimes, but rather than accepting responsibility for your attitudes, and actions, you blame others from Hubbard on down. It is like the Nazi defense at Nuremburg, “I was following orders”.
What kind of person follows such orders?
David,
Aaron now accepts that “I might go to jail, I might get a prosecution, but fuck it, I’m not going to live with this for the rest of my life,”
What kind of person orders such things in the first place?
What kind of person abrogates or denies responsiblity for having made such orders, or policies for directing such things to happen?
And lastly, what kind of person defends those order and policy makers?
Aaron was a 15 year old boy whose parents were Scientologists when he was indoctrinated into the Sea Organization. He didn’t stand a chance.
He is one of the few ex-Scientologists that I have heard who speaks not only of the things done to him, but also the things he did to others. He shows remorse for the wrongs he has done and that is another rarity with ex’s. That he continues to speak out even though there is a chance that he might be prosecuted himself only reinforces my belief that what he’s saying is the horrible truth of what goes on behind closed doors at the “Church” of Scientology.
Thank you, Aaron, for having the courage to come forward and tell your story.
Dave,
It really doesn’t matter how often elron mentioned love. Yes, it does come down to how one practices it rather then just mouthing words.
And how exactly did Hubbard show love? By letting his wife go to prison for acts he ordered. And don’t try to say he knew nothing about the whole operation. He was Source, remember?
You can parade your VM’s around all you want. They are such humaitarians they tried to physically keep people at Ground Zero from being administered to by professional councilors. Then they gave them touch assists! And they gave the firefighter’s purifs which probably made their conditions worse! Yeah, that’s how you people show love.
Is dm showing love when he beats up a staff member or makes him salute his freaking dog?? Is that your definition of love?
Maybe in scientology bizarro land it is but out here in the real world people think disconnection, enforced abortions and recruiting children into the Sea Org is the very opposite of love.
Wake up. Blow scientology. Learn what real love is all about.
Aaron has so you can too.
Aaron,Thank you for your corageous story. You are awesome.
Well yes it does matter how often “elron” mentioned love as Aaron asserted that he didnt.
If we just accepted what other people assert because of the passion they put in it and the coincidence of their assertions with existing assumptions….well what a mess we would have. A mess very much like the current church of scientology in fact.
From what I read and saw in videos of Aaron, he was involved in a cult that had little to do with the scientology I know, albeit a cult as a sub set of the church of scientology.
Scientology as a philosophy and technology is a very different thing from the church, and it is the very fact of people like Aaron being in positions of influence in the church, without any training in scientology, but just acting on the orders of others like him that has brought the church to the point it is at now: disrepute.
And really, as much as I have loved the church, the philosophy and the technology, which I see as something that CAN exist without the church, is what I really care about.
There is a seeming mob mentality happening of late, where anything bad said about “scientology” is automatically accepted without much examination. Things said with passion and reflecting just a slice of the whole, get amplified by the repetition and become seeming facts.
When the truth is more. It is the good and the bad, and much in between.
You celebrate Aaron for his passion and because what he says is what you want to hear.
The truth is much more difficult to arrive at. It requires understanding the parts you dont want to hear.
imo.
Subset of Scientology? The SeaOrg is the elite of Scientology. David Miscavige is the leader of Scientology.
I believe Aaron is saying love is not mentioned in the Sea Org policies, which as Aaron also says are completely different from the “public” policies although written by the same man, L Ron Hubbard.
Aaron echoes my sentiments that the beliefs of the average scientologist are neither here nor there. What is wrong are the hidden policies around which the whole organisation is based, these are the ones that promote human rights abuses and create “aggressors and monsters”.
Aaron’s story has been checked against other stories, documents and knowns, we know for instance of the policies which Aaron mentions that the average public scientologist will not know of. The average public scientologist has no idea what kind of organisation he is supporting.
The average scientologist only knows the truth they are told. Hubbard was quite clever at writing for two different groups; the public scientologists who are wooed for their money and the organisation’s staff for whom compliance is achieved not through affinity but fear.
Oh and on the whole Nuremberg trials bit, the Nazi party regime was very much to blame for the actions of many. The regime fostered human rights abuses and atrocious behaviour; without the regime it would not have happened. This does not excuse those actions though.
I believe Aaron does take responsibility. You say “rank and file” and make little of the “microcosm” Sea Org but the Sea Org is the elite, the top of the pile of scientologists. They are the ones who are supposedly “putting ethics in” etc. They are the most dedicated scientologists. They are the ones who are looked up to, just as they look down on the “rank and file”.
What the Sea Org thinks of itself and promotes itself as, and what it has become are obviously two different things.
Per the writings of Hubbard the various issues other than HCOB’s and HCOPL’s are subordinate. Yes it can be argued that the sea org thinks differently, but that is part of the larger problem.
Where they went wrong goes way back to when they started letting people join who had not tech training and no auditing. In its origins as the Sea Project, the members were all clears and tech trained. It was an expediency Hubbard took to lower the standards, that has come to this point of a sea org of fanatics absent of an understanding of Hubbards larger vision.
Aaron is an example perfect. No tech training, no auditing. A apparent sociopathic personality, given power, without the restraints of knowledge and understanding that would temper his actions.
I dont disbelieve his accounts, on the contrary, they are scary and ring of truth.
But not of the truth of the potential in the technology and philosophy, but of the culture of fanaticism the has glomed onto the church which was set up to promote them.
Dave Adams, Hubbard knew exactly what he was doing when he set up the Sea Org and wrote literally hundreds of special policies specifically intended for them. Policies that directly contradict many of his public policies.
If this was an expediency as you believe consider this, in what way was it expedient? Was it expedient because it enabled the Sea Org to grow far quicker than it would have or was it expedient because the nature of the Sea Org would enable it to KSW and put ethics in better, or both?
Bear in mind the Sea Org are the elite. “Many are called few are chosen” and all that. The Sea Org are at the top of the organisation. They have a higher standard, not a lower one.
It is not meant to be easy to get in to the Sea Org and many find they cannot cope when they do. So the Sea Org is not intended to grow quickly, it is meant to be filled with the elite. The standard is not lower it is completely different, more exacting, and it is enforced much more rigorously.
If this is designed to be an expediency then rapid grow was not the intent. That only leaves that the Sea Org methodology is considered better at KSW, getting ethics in and all that. Hubbard knew that fear is much better at getting compliance than affinity for instance it’s just less acceptable.
Although I agree with you that Hubbard was not perfect, he was often wrong and often made mistakes, the Sea Org was no accident, it is what Hubbard intended. Aaron Saxton is not the exception from the Sea Org he is the rule.
As to the rest of the tech, I have said this before, the actual gains from it can be achieved in other far less expensive ways but if people feel they need Scientology and want to pay the price for it then I won’t stand in their way, that is freedom of religion. I have no problem with the Freezone and independent scientologists that do not support the mother organisation.
It almost sounds as if YOU are defending the Sea Org!
I think it should be disbanded.
I believe it, as well as the church were conceived with good intent.
Obviously things have gone awry to the point of both being perversions of that intent.
YOMV
I do believe there is something of value in attempting to “save” or reform the church. Many do not.
I could give you a good arguement for the rationality of KSW too…but there is little point as opinion enters into it too much for that to be a productive exercise.
@Dave Adams,
I am glad you think the Sea Org should be disbanded but do not think another organisation will not spring up to take its place; remember the Sea Org arose after the disbanding of The Guardian’s Office.
Do not kid yourself that the Sea Org is an accidental abomination. It isn’t. It was created deliberately by L Ron Hubbard. That is the real problem. The Keep Scientology Working concept, The Sea Org and the organisation calling itself the church of scientology are hopelessly intertwined because that is how L Ron Hubbard intended it. David Miscavige is a tyrant but he really is just following policy as a zealot.
I don’t have a problem with The Free Zone, they seem to have dumped the Sea Org and abusive aspects and have a more open and cheaper approach to Scientology – Scientology being the relatively good bits of L Ron Hubbard’s missives. Nor do I have a problem with independent scientologists that do not support the organisation calling itself the church of scientology.
I accept that some people have benefited from Scientology, though I would argue that they could have benefited from other teachings for a lot less money.
I am currently reading Nancy Many’s book “My Billion Year Contract”. Nancy claims Scientology did benefit her but also explains how the organisation calling itself the church of scientology drove her to a mental breakdown. Her story follows a disturbingly common pattern. You might care to take a read and re-evaluate your support for the organisation calling itself the church of scientology.
Its so sad to see Dave defend the “true meaning” of scientology and decry those that have soiled its name. The true meaning of scientology was making boatloads of money, massive ego-stroking and a huge power trip for L Ron Hubbard. Thats it.
This reminds me of all the cults that eventually collapse and there are always a few die hard supporters still around, still believing. Waco, Texas still has members of the Branch Davidian sect, waiting for Koresh to come back as messiah.
Scientology was a financial and ego fueled con game created by a skilled conman. Thats it. There is no deeper truth to the auditing or the tech. Take that E-meter to a real electrical engineer (one who doesn’t work for the church) and ask them how it works.
What we see in the sea org is the cream of the cult. Scientology s a mystery religion, what Dave thinks he knows is actually only the lower levels. As one rises higher in the ranks, one learns more, often stuff that contradicts or veers wildly from earlier lessons. This isn’t because its been “corrupted” its because it was created that way, deliberately.
The biggest difference between scientology and other cults is simply organisation. The church is formidably organised. It would long ago have dwindled and died without this core organisation.
Read about L Ron from sources outside the church. You’ll find a paranoid, delusion conman, not a wise prophet
Yes cults do wither away, but some big ones do last a while, look at the catholic church!
(Which I believe practices a perversion of Christs intent)
The search for the truth is not embodied in any organization, but us silly humans seem to need them for some reason.
My opinion on Hubbard and his product differs from yours. But you are welcome to your opinion too. I have read basicly everything bad about him and scientology. Balanced by my study of scientology, I still find MUCH of value in his works. The “bad” proves his humanity, and the good….his humanity too.
What I have always held onto in my 30+ years as a scientologist is that what is true for me by my own perceptions and experience are the most important, and the church and others views less so. That is the only way it can truly work. Otherwise I would just be a slave of others thought. I encourage people to never accept things without their own examination. Something that is NO LONGER part of the church culture. But I believe in an extensive study of Hubbards words you would find him to have recommended the same and warned of its consequences.
Read his “1984″ quote.
Scientology has in it the remedy for scientology. (paraphrased)
And the time for the remedy has come.
@Dave. I too have watched scientology, among many other similar groups for around 40 years now. I too believe such groups unnecessary, which is why I don’t subscribe to any.
I’m guessing when you say Hubbard’s “1984 quote” you’re referring to the quote from the Philadelphia Doctorate Course lecture of 6 December 1952, specifically this segment, which I quote for illustrative purposes.
“You’ll find almost any preclear can be given Creative Processing. And you could get ahold of him and flip the PDH out. That’s interesting, isn’t it? In other words, you can take them out as fast they lay them down.
“Therefore, we really do have the remedy before the assault weapon is produced. Did you ever read poor old George Orwell’s 1984? Yes, yes, that’s wonderful. That would be — could be the palest imagined shadow of what a world would be like under the rule of the secret use of Scientology with no remedy in existence.
“It’s a very simple remedy. And that’s just make sure that the remedy is passed along. That’s all. Don’t hoard it and don’t hold it; and if you ever do use any Black Dianetics, use it on the guy who pulled Scientology out of sight and made it so it wasn’t available. Because he’s the boy who would be electing himself “The New Order.” And we don’t need any more new orders. All those orders, as far as I am concerned, have been filled.”
This lecture, made at Hubbard’s ideological prime, has been edited somewhat in the latest release and the 1984 part has been removed.
I don’t think I have the space to detail Hubbard’s devolution but in 1952 he was actually more ideological and while he still did what he did from the point of view of making money he also aimed to actually help people; much like Tony Robbins does today for instance. Anyhow he gradually became corrupted as did his organisation.
When he later set up the Guardian’s Office he had become obsessed with making loads of money and gaining power. The adoration and idolisation of his minions had literally gone to his head. He’d also began to develop the paranoia that would later consume him and which is responsible for all that is wrong with the organisation today. It was almost sad to watch. He was indeed very much human.
As I have said, the beliefs are neither here nor there. The problem is with the organisation calling itself the church of scientology, the Sea Org and those who support both by their misguided donations to any of the organisations’ causes.
The organisation now has a life of its own and is very corrupt, corrupting and dangerous. Scientology as a belief system is much better practised by individuals such as independent scientologists and relatively benign groups such as the Free Zone.
Dean,
You say:
“As I have said, the beliefs are neither here nor there. The problem is with the organisation calling itself the church of scientology, the Sea Org and those who support both by their misguided donations to any of the organisations’ causes.
The organisation now has a life of its own and is very corrupt, corrupting and dangerous. Scientology as a belief system is much better practised by individuals such as independent scientologists and relatively benign groups such as the Free Zone.”
Which to some extent I agree. But the Freezone’s weakness is the lack of facilities and organization to provide training and auditing.
Toyota would be ineffective as a car maker without outlets to sell and service thier product. Scientology is something that needs some degree of support, course rooms and staff for training, auditing rooms, auditors, case supervisors, and a qual division for auditing. Some degree of “org” is needed.
Yes the current church is not the ideal, and in fact abusive.
MY OPINION is that the intent and the philosophy are sound and the implementation are flawed. Many believe otherwise. My intent is to try to bring my little bits of understanding to the game of figuring it all out.
I think AAron’s accounts of his experience are true pictures of his experience but not of the intent of most scientologists, not what we work for, not what we believe, not what we want. That is what prompted my to post here, to attempt to mitigate the potential perception that his experiences were anything but an example of scientology gone wrong.
@Dave,
I agree that intent of most subscribers to the organisation calling itself the church of scientology is to do good. The problem is their intention to do good has been abused by the organisation to turn them in to revenue machines for the organisation.
Subscribers to the organisation calling itself the church of scientology have been taught and sincerely believe that the only way to help is to spread scientology tech; it’s the only hope for mankind.
They are also taught and sincerely believe that not only is the organisations’ tech the only way to help but that other forms of help, especially but limited to psychiatry, are actually damaging and must be stopped.
It is this kind of programming that has subscribers to the organisation turn up and disaster zones armed only with a yellow tent and scientology literature, including “anti-psych” literature, in order to help. They believe they are helping but all they are doing is selling scientology tech at disaster zones; they even have a PR hatted person to ensure good coverage.
Of the many subscribers to the organisation I have known most have been decent people. However as time goes on either more and more demands are put upon them to buy courses and materials or more and more demands are put upon them to sell more courses and materials, or both.
Many become disillusioned with the organisation and see the scam for what it is, an expensive form of self improvement that like most others only works to some degree on some people.
Those it works best with often become disillusioned with the organisation but think it is the problem with the management. They hold out hope that a change in management will result in improvements, what they don’t realise is that the core policies are the real problem and the only way to ditch those is to break up the organisation because the organisation is built upon them.
Sadly there are those who end up having some kind of psychotic break; often the nicest of people because they are unable to reconcile the supposed beliefs and ideals with the common practices. Here I speak not just of the likes of Lisa McPherson and Greg Bashaw, who ended up dead, but the many others who ultimately survived but only after many months, often years of tailored counselling.
You say the problem with the Freezone is its lack of facilities. Why does scientology need to be like a Toyota car plant? This is part of the problem, the factory mentality of the organisation. It isn’t enough that one goes at one’s own pace and cherry picks what works best for them, it is vital that they do more courses and buy more materials in order to keep the organisations stats up and, more importantly, keep the money flowing in.
If people want to embark on a journey of self discovery and improvement and choose to study scientology as part of that then they should not be pressured in to taking courses or buying materials. The Freezone operate reading rooms and there are independent auditors who provide auditing for a modest fee.
The problem is that Aaron’s accounts are not an example of the organisation calling itself the church of scientology going wrong, they are an example of exactly how it operates, which is exactly how Hubbard intended it to operate as documented in the myriad of special Sea Org eyes only policies.
Senator Xenophon’s speech discussing the experiences of Aaron Saxton and other former Scientologists:
http://www.aph.gov.au/Hansard/senate/dailys/ds171109.pdf
Aaron Saxton in the media:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/nov/18/scientology-torture-allegations-australia
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1228929/Scientology-criminal-organisation-rife-beatings-abortion-fraud-claims-Australian-senator.html
http://www.smh.com.au/national/scientologys-dark-secrets-20091120-iqyn.html
Today Tonight report featuring Aaron and the other former Scientologists:
http://au.todaytonight.yahoo.com/article/6489042/none/calls-scientology-inquiry
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXNMFscldUc&feature=related
The children and relatives of some of Scientology’s top executives have spoken out at: http://exscientologykids.com
Astra Woodcraft tells her story of pressuring Scientologists to have abortions and herself receiving that pressure at: http://exscientologykids.com/astra2.html
More can be provided upon request.
Wow! What a relief to to finally have someone with his level of experience speak up and speak from the heart because of his conscience . Great interview. A Classic. Thank you
Aaron is a courageous independent thinker and his honesty at this juncture of his life is worthy of respect. He has my support.
Love is not on the “Tone Scale”. it isn’t.
Affinity is not the same thing as love.
There certainly is no such concept of unconditional love in Scientology.
As regards the Free Zone, because it functions off of the same fundamental belief that LRH is source and his tech is to be followed to the letter, it ends up as being as abusive…It is like a smaller org.
When you are told that “doubt” is a crime, and that any thoughts you may have are potentially criminal just because someone else says so is when you begin to really harm the psyche of good people. What begins out as a supposed adventurous call to freedom actually becomes a Fear fueled nightmare which ends up turning a person against themselves, and that is abuse to say the least. True philosophical exploration allows for constant questioning and comparison and debate, not forcing a person to use a dictionary to hammer into them the meaning of a single word, and blaming them for not getting something which they are not really encouraged to independently think about, but to memorize and repeat back verbatim like a robot…. And this is supposed to make a person more “able”? More able to take commands is more like it.
It is thought reform. (that’s the big word for brainwashing)
…and that is why the “tech” is problematic to the core.
It is interesting to make a comparative study of movements such as the Nazis, especially when contemplating how it is that so many people become “true believers” of the movement and Hitlers themselves. DM is an absolute tyrant, but there are also hundreds of little tyrants who are conducting themselves in one way or another like DM, because it is in agreement with LRH policy.
sad. Surely we will hear from more of them as time goes on.
Thanks to a lot of good folks out there, steady progress is being made, and hopefully more and more people will get the help and support they want and need.
Thank you for sharing this interview.
If any organization other than one claiming to be a “religion” tried this stuff. they would either all be in prison doing very hard time or lined up and shot.
The more I learn about Scientology, and I have their materials, the more I am in favor of the latter.
Fortunately, here in Brazil, they are nearly non-existent. Any that approach me will wish they were.